Ep. 19: So you want to be a sustainability communicator?
The profession of being a sustainability communicator is relatively new – and seems to be evolving with each passing day. Success in this emerging field requires understanding the intricate goals and objectives of both sustainability and marketing teams, and developing the unique skill of translating between these often disparate organizational functions. In this episode, Mike delves into the field's evolution over the past few decades through the lens of Jessica Appelgren, a remarkable professional with unmatched depth and breadth of experience in sustainability communication.
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TRANSCRIPT
Mike Hower: The profession of sustainability communicator is relatively new and seems to be evolving with each passing day. Success requires understanding the goals and objectives of both sustainability and marketing teams and how to translate between the two. Today, we're going to look back on how the field has evolved over the past few decades by examining the experience of someone with unmatched depth and breadth of experience in sustainability communication, Jessica Applegren.
Jessica is a friend and mentor I deeply admire for her passion for positive impact. She brings unique creativity and deep knowledge at the intersection of sustainability, climate tech, and storytelling—from Impossible Foods to Google and beyond. She has held a variety of communication roles in both corporate sustainability and climate tech.
Today, she's an advisor and consultant for sustainability and climate-focused companies, and I'm excited to have her come on to share her story. Thanks for being here today, Jessica.
Jessica Appelgren: Thank you, Mike. I'm excited to spend a good chunk of time with you because I haven't gotten that chance in a few years.
Mike: It's great to catch up. I'd love to hear about your career journey as a sustainability communicator. Can you tell us what got you into this space and what have been the highlights and key lessons you've learned?
Jessica: Where should I begin? Let's look at the influences on my life that shaped my career choices. It began with my parents, who believed that stewardship of land and human rights were the highest expression of work.
My dad became a local politician—the mayor and county supervisor—in an area of California known as the Inland Empire. When I moved there as a kid, it was all orange groves and vineyards. Sunset Magazine eventually dubbed it the worst case of sprawl in the country. My dad's role was to manage the incoming development and ensure it was thoughtful and smart, to be a steward of the land.
My mom was a lawyer who started an all-women's law firm. They took on environmental justice issues and provided state planning for older folks who were being taken advantage of. Both of my parents always stood up for what was right through their work, and that was deeply embedded in my consciousness.
After college, I initially thought journalism was my path. I got some great roles at Bay Area magazines and became an editor of a magazine called Seven by Seven. I loved the impartial nature of journalism but found it limiting. I wanted to advocate for causes I believed in.
So I moved into marketing and PR—something I never imagined doing. I came to realize that marketing, public relations, and communications are essentially skillful advocacy for what you believe in. I started by leading marketing for an urban planning and environmental planning firm called EDAW. They were trying to create the most sustainable project environments for their clients, from Olympic master plans to protecting vernal pools.
Messaging around sustainability just got into my blood. It was infectious. I wanted to do more, which led me to work at a clean tech sustainability agency. We provided marketing and communications for startups in solar, electric vehicles, batteries, and even worked with innovators like Bill McDonough. It gave me an incredible education in communicating sustainability and trying to figure out how to get people to care.
Mike: You've done so much over the years. How have you seen the field change? Even in the 15 years I've been in this space, it's transformed dramatically. You've been doing this even longer than me. How has sustainability communication changed from when you first got into it to today?
Jessica: The timeline of sustainability communication is fascinating. In the early days, people like Al Gore tried to shock people into understanding the urgency of climate change. Fear tactics were initially used to inspire change, but that approach quickly proved ineffective. The looming shame and blame created dissonance that didn't actually motivate people to act.
When I joined Saatchi Saatchi S., our leading principle was that sustainability should be irresistible. It wasn't about making people feel bad, but the opposite—giving someone a better experience and helping them understand that sustainability underpins that experience.
I think we're still in a phase where people may value climate and sustainability, but everyone remains budget-conscious. They won't go out of their way to make the right choice. We're still figuring out the right mix of messages to unlock desired behaviors.
Mike: I think we met when you were at Saatchi and Saatchi S, and I was just starting my sustainability career with Sustainable Brands. That was the initial "Kool-Aid" I drank—the idea of sustainability being irresistible. My first sustainability conference, SB 12, really emphasized this theme. What brought me into the space was the concept that business can be a force for good.
In recent years, though, there's been more emphasis on compliance and making money for investors, which is a different messaging approach. It's interesting how the field has evolved from passion-driven to more practical, and maybe we're moving towards a mix of the two.
Jessica: Right now, we've seen huge changes in the past year, with companies pulling back, afraid of being called out for greenwashing or being "woke". Even the idea of sustainability as risk mitigation has become suspect, as any ESG signaling became risky. It's been pretty wild to see how the landscape has shifted.
Mike: Speaking of shifts, what skills do successful sustainability communicators need to cultivate? I'm often asked by communication generalists wanting to focus on sustainability or sustainability practitioners looking to improve their communications.
Jessica: I'd say the top three most important skills are:
Be a good researcher. Collect data credibly and have it ready to support your communications.
Build messaging that is authentic, compelling, true, and concise. Emphasize your key points consistently until they're understood.
Practice empathy. The success of campaigns often comes down to how much empathy the brand or agency shows to multiple audiences.
Mike: That's great advice, especially the first point about research. People often assume sustainability communicators have mystical knowledge, but it's really about being good at learning. This field is constantly changing, so you have to read a lot, talk to people doing the work, attend conferences, and network.
The key is giving yourself permission to not know everything, but being confident that you can research and communicate it effectively through a sustainability lens.
Jessica: The timeline of sustainability communication is fascinating. In the early days, people like Al Gore tried to shock people into understanding the urgency of climate change. Fear tactics were initially used to inspire change, but that approach quickly proved ineffective. The looming shame and blame created dissonance that didn't actually motivate people to act.
When I joined Saatchi Saatchi S., our leading principle was that sustainability should be irresistible. It wasn't about making people feel bad, but the opposite—giving someone a better experience and helping them understand that sustainability underpins that experience.
I think we're still in a phase where people may value climate and sustainability, but everyone remains budget-conscious. They won't go out of their way to make the right choice. We're still figuring out the right mix of messages to unlock desired behaviors.
Mike: I think we met when you were at Saatchi and Saatchi S, and I was just starting my sustainability career with Sustainable Brands. That was the initial "Kool-Aid" I drank—the idea of sustainability being irresistible. My first sustainability conference, SB 12, really emphasized this theme. What brought me into the space was the concept that business can be a force for good.
In recent years, though, there's been more emphasis on compliance and making money for investors, which is a different messaging approach. It's interesting how the field has evolved from passion-driven to more practical, and maybe we're moving towards a mix of the two.
Jessica: Right now, we've seen huge changes in the past year, with companies pulling back, afraid of being called out for greenwashing or being "woke". Even the idea of sustainability as risk mitigation has become suspect, as any ESG signaling became risky. It's been pretty wild to see how the landscape has shifted.
Mike: Speaking of shifts, what skills do successful sustainability communicators need to cultivate? I'm often asked by communication generalists wanting to focus on sustainability or sustainability practitioners looking to improve their communications.
Jessica: I'd say the top three most important skills are:
Be a good researcher. Collect data credibly and have it ready to support your communications.
Build messaging that is authentic, compelling, true, and concise. Emphasize your key points consistently until they're understood.
Practice empathy. The success of campaigns often comes down to how much empathy the brand or agency shows to multiple audiences.
Mike: That's great advice, especially the first point about research. People often assume sustainability communicators have mystical knowledge, but it's really about being good at learning. This field is constantly changing, so you have to read a lot, talk to people doing the work, attend conferences, and network.
The key is giving yourself permission to not know everything, but being confident that you can research and communicate it effectively through a sustainability lens.
Jessica: It's like being in school forever. Your job is to stay curious and aware of all the angles on this topic, weaving together something strong. It's probably my favorite part of the job.
Mike: That's a common trend I've noticed with guests on this podcast. Even well-established professionals say, "I don't know it all. I just know how to learn and ask questions." It keeps us relevant because things are changing so fast. When giving career advice, I tell people I don't expect to be doing the exact same thing in five years.
Some might find that scary, but I find it exciting.
Jessica: I completely agree. I need evolution.
Mike: I'd love to dive into a specific role you've had that highlights a common challenge—your time at Impossible Foods. When you started, alternative meat was just emerging. What were the challenges in communicating Impossible's offering, and what did you learn that translates to sustainability communications?
Jessica: I could write a whole book about this. I started talking to founder Pat Brown in 2014. My younger sister was at Stanford and heard he was starting this sustainable meat and dairy company. My grandfather had run a dairy in California, so I understood the sustainability and climate issues in that system.
When we launched, Beyond Meat was already out there. Our communication team's job was to help people understand the problem, which was poorly represented in media. Animal agriculture is a massive global system with significant funding. Illuminating its problems meant creating enemies from the start.
The challenge was how to highlight the system's issues while selling a product that could replace something people love. Everyone has emotional connections to food—memories of favorite hamburgers. We needed to convey the environmental impacts of animal agriculture from climate, water, and land perspectives.
How do you build a brand that's exciting and irresistible while making people understand the dire problems of our meat consumption? Initially, it was almost too easy to get people excited. We had an amazing strategy, partnering with influencers and chefs, using cultural levers to bring people into a meaningful movement.
Looking back, we weren't thinking about the next five years. We were successful enough to become a target, and maybe our initial messaging created unnecessary challenges. We went in "guns blazing," wanting to make the world understand the problem's seriousness.
One of my first conversations with Pat was about a sustainability report. He initially said, "CSR reports are for shoe companies. We just need to sell the product." But I lobbied to launch our first report in 2017. By the second report, Pat was fully invested—we almost had a cover that said, "F*** the meat industry."
In hindsight, I wish we had shown up differently—welcoming people to a new kind of meat instead of creating animosity we thought was necessary to spark change.
Mike: It's fascinating how the political climate changed. Who could have anticipated people on the right criticizing lab-grown meat as "anti-American"?
Jessica: I'll never forget when Donald Trump was elected, and we realized our whole communication strategy needed to shift. We got wrapped into the culture wars—everyone from Joe Rogan to various media personalities had an opinion about Impossible Foods. It generated a lot of attention, but was it strategically valuable?
Mike: I knew you'd succeeded when my dad—the biggest meat-eater—tried an Impossible Whopper and said it was good.
Jessica: One of our best communications was the Burger King commercial launching the Impossible Whopper, showing people being fooled into thinking they'd eaten real meat.
Mike: Let's talk about the differences between communicating in climate tech versus corporate sustainability. As someone who's worked in both, what insights can you share?
Jessica: It depends on what excites you. For me, it's creative brand expression. When working with climate tech companies, communication is about functionality—explaining how something works, its goals, and its solutions. It's more logical: we have a problem, here's a solution, here's the investment, here's the timeline.
Corporate sustainability communication is more emotional and storytelling-focused. It requires creativity to invite people's interest. I remember working with Caesars Entertainment, where a competitor launched their sustainability report as a Las Vegas show—a lived experience that changed the game of getting people emotionally connected to a sustainability story.
Ultimately, choose the path that excites you most. You can do both, but follow what truly lights you up.
Mike: That's actually one of the reasons I didn't enjoy working in climate tech. My issue was the lack of passion in communication. It often felt like we were just trying to sell a product, with sustainability as just one selling point. That pushed me back to corporate sustainability, though I still occasionally work with climate tech companies.
Jessica: At the end of the day, I'm always thinking about our finite time on this planet. How can I apply my skills to preserve the planet for everyone? Some climate tech solutions are bankable and not subject to political whims. I'm working with carbon capture companies right now. Some argue we should only focus on renewables, but I know this technology works and is necessary.
We simply have too much carbon. Even if we made all changes right now, we'd still have excess carbon. So we need these technologies. In the bigger picture, we need all solutions.
Mike: I tell younger people that passion alone isn't enough to sustain a career. You should have passion, but there will be periods where you'll question whether you're making a difference. You have to fall back on practical results, not just raw emotion.
Mike: Let's talk about artificial intelligence. How will AI influence communications, especially in sustainability? There are fears about AI replacing writers, but I believe it'll be a force multiplier. What are your thoughts on AI's role in sustainability communication?
Jessica: I've thought a lot about this. I spent the last year at X, Google's moonshot factory, which does extensive AI-related work. One fascinating example is a project called Tapestry, which uses AI to dramatically shorten the time grid planners need to create scenarios for decision-makers.
Typically, it takes humans months to create plans and reports. AI can collapse that timeline, providing comprehensive information instantly. The country of Chile is using this technology to plan their transition to being completely renewable by 2030.
Another exciting development is the IPCC Climate Science Helper, created by Paul Young from GitHub. It's a ChatGPT tool that serves as an approachable expert in climate science, sourced from IPCC reports. Imagine being able to ask exactly what you need to know, cutting down research time while still requiring human verification.
These developments are exciting because they'll make planetary data more accessible. Solutions will likely come at a much faster pace because of AI. It's truly amazing.
Mike: It sounds like AI can help sustainability communicators be more efficient and effective, not replace them.
Jessica: Exactly. It's a tool that enhances our capabilities, not a replacement for human creativity and insight.
Transcript: Interview with Jessica Applegren on Sustainability Communication (Continued)
Mike: I've jokingly discussed with friends about creating AI tools like an ESG reporting AI that could keep you updated on regulatory changes. Some consultants worry about being replaced, but as you pointed out, AI isn't perfect. You'll need someone who can effectively use and manage AI. Have you heard about technologies that can clone or mimic personal communication styles?
Jessica: I actually had a conversation with an influential investor about this. He was exploring ways to shortcut communication by mining his existing emails and correspondence to create an AI that could potentially respond in his voice. He's even thinking about it from a legacy perspective—how he might pass on his experience to future generations.
Mike: Wow, that's quite deep. The core goal seems to be about efficiently capturing and passing on knowledge, especially in an increasingly complex world like sustainability. Having a tool that could help me stay focused by highlighting the top 10 things I need to know each week would be incredibly helpful. Previously, you'd need to hire a team to scour the internet for such information.
Let's discuss the tension between Chief Marketing Officers (CMOs) and Chief Sustainability Officers. Given the current landscape where companies risk criticism from multiple sides, what advice would you give a CMO today who needs to communicate sustainability?
Jessica: Understanding your company's core brand values is essential. Who are you at the end of the day? How do you want to show up in the world? Your sustainability communication should be an extension of those values.
At Impossible Foods, we were committed to being the most transparent food company on the planet and being disruptive. These fundamental principles guided our marketing and sustainability strategies. There's also an important Japanese concept about constantly checking in with stakeholders. Sustainability communication requires getting people on board internally.
The human element of internal politics and stakeholder engagement is something AI can't replace. It's critical to socialize your strategy and get the right people engaged.
Mike: I see this in my own work. About 90% of my clients' jobs involve internal stakeholder management. They're constantly "socializing" communications, especially in larger companies. Sometimes people who aren't mission-critical still need to review things to prevent potential conflicts.
The human element remains crucial unless AI somehow replaces everyone—though I recently heard speculation about potential AI CEOs, which sounds pretty scary.
Jessica: That sounds fascinating. I'd love to read that article.
Mike: We've discussed how sustainability and marketing teams can work better together. What insights can you share about developing a "closeness" between these teams that allows them to understand each other's goals and create opportunities?
Jessica: Making yourself a huge asset to the marketing team is key. Have you met Rebecca Moses, who led sustainability at Impossible?
Mike: Oh, you two are close! She's basically the epitome of successful collaboration between sustainability and marketing teams.
The transcript maintains the conversational tone while providing a clean, readable format that captures the nuanced discussion about AI, corporate communication strategies, and team collaboration in sustainability.
Jessica: I'm so lucky that I got a chance to have her on my team. She was an invaluable resource for the sales team, marketing team, and procurement team. She was so knowledgeable about our supply chain and how our sustainability practices improved it.
She could tell you anything about what information was most important in the sales cycle with a new retailer or food service customer – helping them understand how they could use the sustainability data to their benefit. She was such a fountain of knowledge and made herself so valuable to the organization that the marketing team was excited to tap into that resource with authentic communications.
We crafted amazing programs around helping younger generations understand sustainability and could not have done any of that without a deep resource like Rebecca. I think it's less a push and more a pull from the sustainability team. If you can show your chops and demonstrate how it is benefiting the business, the marketing team is going to catch on.
Mike: Yeah, I've been hearing that in a lot of my conversations recently. Many sustainability challenges are just business challenges. The most successful sustainability directors I know have figured out how to treat it as a business challenge. They've let go of the "we got to do this because it's the right thing" approach. It is the right thing, but that's not going to convince people who are being measured for other things in your business.
Mike: Anything else you'd like to add before we let you go?
Jessica: I'm thrilled that we got to hang out. I believe this space is not going to be replaced by computers. There's an innately human creative element to what we do because everything's shifting so fast, and the urgency to get this right has never been greater.
I think anyone listening who wants to get into this space should put their hand up and jump in because it's more needed now than ever. It's such a fascinating and exciting moment to be doing this. Thanks for having me – it's been super fun.
Mike: Thank you so much, Jessica. Everybody, this is Jessica Applegren – who I call a sustainability communications extraordinaire. I'll include a link to her LinkedIn profile in the show notes. Thanks for tuning in today.
Jessica: Thank you, Mike.
